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Jenny, where for art thou with thy music?
 
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bergenergy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:08 pm
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What has happened to her music? It has become, at best, a tepid recycling of previously digested genres.

RKnet itself said it best, when it noted that the band's downfall started when Jenny figured out she could 'sing'. You get the hint on 'I Never' that she has learned to belt out the soul/blues in a way that sounds great, but has no real dimension. I know that song is on a supposedly 'sellout,' but, in fact, truly great album, and I really like it. But it portends a serious downturn in musical significance for her and the band.

I do appreciate that her solo shows are 'fun'. But ...

my daughter listens to every album through MA almost every night, whether it be while doing homework or going to sleep. I have never heard her play a post MA track, EVER.

Now I know my daughter is not the final word in taste, no one is. But she certainly provides an indication as to where the memorable Jenny Lewis/RK moments lie to one who has no other agenda.

I guess, what I really want to say here is that MA, and what came before it, were an utterly inspiring representation of what music and lyrics could offer. Every indicator seemed to point toward further achievements.

So what happened?

I had a music professor who once said, 'many artists are only touched once or twice by the hand of greatness, and then it doesn't return'.

That may be the case with RK, as Mattaway said in the 'I wish' thread, but I still believe that Jenny, Blake, Pierre and Jason can create music which will transcend genre and expectation in a way that delights every sense.

They can write wildly original lyrics and back them up with tight and moving music.

Prost!
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chemicalstress
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:18 pm
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I don't think she has lost her mind, I think she is growing and changing as an artist, and it suits some people's taste and it does not suit other people's taste. It suits my musical taste/aesthetic - I love her solo stuff, more than I love Take Offs. I know other people feel differently. My musical aesthetic isn't objective truth... and no one's is... and a person can't be said to have lost their mind for disagreeing with another person's musical taste.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:28 pm
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I'm not a big fan of her recent stuff, but I think saying she lost her mind is a poor choice of words.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:32 pm
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chemicalstress wrote:
I don't think she has lost her mind, I think she is growing and changing as an artist, and it suits some people's taste and it does not suit other people's taste. It suits my musical taste/aesthetic - I love her solo stuff, more than I love Take Offs. I know other people feel differently. My musical aesthetic isn't objective truth... and no one's is... and a person can't be said to have lost their mind for disagreeing with another person's musical taste.


lol - I just got through re-editing my original post for like the 5th time and see yours. Yes, you are right, many people love her solo stuff for all kinds of good reasons. I just find it all to be almost absurdly disappointing.

Look at 'Next Messiah,; which seems to have transitions and all the elements of great song, versus 'Pictures of Success'.

In 'Messiah,' everything feels predictable and repetitive after two listenings, while 'Pictures,' and songs like 'Plane Crash in C' are endlessly exchanting and mysterious.

Many other examples could apply - both lyrically and musically. But, more than anything, it's just the way I feel. You feel differently and I respect that.

I hope Jenny continues to have many fans of her new music..
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:32 pm
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i can't say that i'm in love with any of her recent stuff, but i wouldn't suggest that her music is "at best, a tepid recycling of previously digested genres". and that's because i respect her as an artist and my appreciation for the beautiful songs she has penned in the past surpasses my dislike for the majority of her solo work. i could add some more about how she's grown up and changed and all of that jazz, but we all know this. we all know that a 30-something year old woman isn't going to write the same songs that she wrote when she was 20-something, because she isn't looking at life the way she did back then. i wish her newer stuff was less repetetive and more complex both lyrically and musically too, but rather than be upset about something that i can't change, i just take the time to enjoy the old stuff that much more.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:57 pm
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Emily wrote:
i can't say that i'm in love with any of her recent stuff, but i wouldn't suggest that her music is "at best, a tepid recycling of previously digested genres". and that's because i respect her as an artist and my appreciation for the beautiful songs she has penned in the past surpasses my dislike for the majority of her solo work. i could add some more about how she's grown up and changed and all of that jazz, but we all know this. we all know that a 30-something year old woman isn't going to write the same songs that she wrote when she was 20-something, because she isn't looking at life the way she did back then. i wish her newer stuff was less repetetive and more complex both lyrically and musically too, but rather than be upset about something that i can't change, i just take the time to enjoy the old stuff that much more.


Well said, I agree completely about changing your perspective over time.

I just wish her perspective had become more intriguing instead of prosaic.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:00 am
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Not that I entirely agree with your premise here, Dan, but might I suggest that it's due to a change in songwriting partners?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:26 am
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This is really about a genre change. Its as simple as that. RK started off as this lo fi, mysterious indie pop band with light alt country influences and evolved into a full on roots rock, alt country, bluesy, kinda of band with only slight references to their indie pop past. If this style is not to your taste, it just isn't. Bands CAN'T stay the same. Change is inevitable. As a musician in a band I can tell you, if you stay locked into a certain formula and have an expectation as to where your music will go, you begin repeating yourself...literally sometimes. Playing the same chords, writing on the same topics. You eventually hit a wall. You have no choice but to evolve. What would be the point of jenny going solo if she was only going to make execution part 2? She went solo so she can explore other avenues.

Also you have to keep in mind, many bands change their sound simply because when they get successful,they finally have the means to make their music sound the way they REALLY want. Ladytron said they went in a more gothic, shoegazey direction because they could finally afford the equipment and studios that require that sound. Takeofffs was recorded at home. When they actually got into a studio and had a label backing them, they got orchestras and more lush production. Its just the way things go. I'm quite sure with UTB they became the band they wanted to be. I think Acid Tongue is a great record, hell amazing, but I still love the EP and Takeoffs so much more.

I appreciate versatility in a band. When Goldfrapp released Seventh Tree last year, people were furious that they abandoned their clubby, glam, lady gaga-esque sound and put out a folk album. But Seventh Tree is by far my fave Goldfrapp album and one of my fave albums of last year, and I'm a far bigger fan of electronic music then I am folk. No one wants to be locked into one thing. So in short, jenny hasn't lost her mind, she's just being a musician. Always growing and changing, just like people. You don't have to like itbut you do have to accept it. Its HER music. Just be content with pre MA stuff.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:46 am
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bello_returns wrote:
This is really about a genre change. Its as simple as that. RK started off as this lo fi, mysterious indie pop band with light alt country influences and evolved into a full on roots rock, alt country, bluesy, kinda of band with only slight references to their indie pop past. If this style is not to your taste, it just isn't. Bands CAN'T stay the same. Change is inevitable. As a musician in a band I can tell you, if you stay locked into a certain formula and have an expectation as to where your music will go, you begin repeating yourself...literally sometimes. Playing the same chords, writing on the same topics. You eventually hit a wall. You have no choice but to evolve. What would be the point of jenny going solo if she was only going to make execution part 2? She went solo so she can explore other avenues.

Also you have to keep in mind, many bands change their sound simply because when they get successful,they finally have the means to make their music sound the way they REALLY want. Ladytron said they went in a more gothic, shoegazey direction because they could finally afford the equipment and studios that require that sound. Takeofffs was recorded at home. When they actually got into a studio and had a label backing them, they got orchestras and more lush production. Its just the way things go. I'm quite sure with UTB they became the band they wanted to be. I think Acid Tongue is a great record, hell amazing, but I still love the EP and Takeoffs so much more.



bello, you make a good case for bands needing to change.

And I will definitely admit that even the greatest bands ended up making 'change' albums which didn't really stand the test of time ( a la UBL).

But with RK, I believe they are capable of making songs which are as great, or even better, than any of their MA and before stuff.

IMHO, everything that has come since MA has been a huge step backward.

What is so frustrating is feeling that they have every necessary talent to put together music which will break new ground in ways that Take us Off to new places -

where we want to Land. O RLY?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:38 pm
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I'm also sick of the whole 'hippies up in the canyon' thing.

I'm an old hippy and can tell you that their music either sucks or rocks.

So far, JL is more in the first category than the second.

She needs to get back to the flatland/city and make something that pushes boundaries.

(PS - yes I'm trolling, but this is how I truly feel, but just haven't posted)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:17 pm
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bergenergy wrote:
But with RK, I believe they are capable of making songs which are as great, or even better, than any of their MA and before stuff


That's a lot of pressure to live up to. And i doubt Jenny Lewis has ever said to herself, "Gee, I really think this song is as great as Pictures of Success was. So glad i found that special place again. Teehee."

She doesn't rate her work or anything, nor is she holding herself back. You say she has the potential to write great music again like she did in the old RK days, but she's only doing what's coming to her naturally as an artist. I like all of her music through her time with RK in different ways, because it's all different.

also, IMO, The Next Messiah is bad ass.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:56 pm
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bergenergy wrote:
I'm also sick of the whole 'hippies up in the canyon' thing.


i'm not going to comment on the rest of this but SO MUCH WORD HERE. the laurel canyon scene was notable in the past because all of the folks involved pretty much ruled. the byrds, zappa, csny, the eagles, the doors, etc. i love w2k and jenny is clearly the shit but it seems like the rest of the participants are just nondescript stoners with guitars. boring and totally not worthy of the comparison.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:41 pm
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delia wrote:
bergenergy wrote:
I'm also sick of the whole 'hippies up in the canyon' thing.


i'm not going to comment on the rest of this but SO MUCH WORD HERE. the laurel canyon scene was notable in the past because all of the folks involved pretty much ruled. the byrds, zappa, csny, the eagles, the doors, etc. i love w2k and jenny is clearly the shit but it seems like the rest of the participants are just nondescript stoners with guitars. boring and totally not worthy of the comparison.


I totally agree. That whole Laurel Canyon thing is so overrated. Everytime I drive up or down Laurel Canyon Blvd, I just roll my eyes at some of the people I see. Even the whole Silver Lake/Los Feliz scene is getting old. I mean really, do all the indie "cool" celebs have to migrate to one area?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:02 pm
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bergenergy wrote:


And I will definitely admit that even the greatest bands ended up making 'change' albums which didn't really stand the test of time ( a la UBL).



It's stood the test of time in my household. But then again, I love Jenny's solo stuff, so we're clearly not on the same page here.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:05 am
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I admit that I didnt really love Acid Tongue or UTB, but I thought RFC was kind of amazing. And pretty original.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:17 am
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^ RFC changed my life, as lame/cliche as that sounds. no other album has inspired me as much as RFC and if that makes me lame, then so be it. it inspired me to write SO many songs during that year it came out.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:16 pm
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paramour wrote:
^ RFC changed my life, as lame/cliche as that sounds. no other album has inspired me as much as RFC and if that makes me lame, then so be it. it inspired me to write SO many songs during that year it came out.


I totally agree. I kind of liked Rilo Kiley before Rabbit Fur Coat came out (I owned TEOAT and MA) but I was never really blown totally away until I heard RFC. It's definitely my favorite album of all time. It made me re-examine Rilo Kiley and I fell in love with them hardcore.

As for UTB, I think it is okay. That's all. It's a fun album, and I really enjoy the first half, but after Dreamworld it's mostly just forgettable to me. Not horrible, just kind of generic.

AT I like a little more, but I still don't love it. I have never really figured out WHY I don't love it. Partly, I was already sick of Carpetbaggers and Fernando from the RFC tour. Those songs are okay, but they never hit me as hard as the RFC songs. It might be just be, but AT and UTB feel a lot less personal than most of Jenny's other song writings. She has said herself that the songs are more character driven. They are still enjoyable songs, but I like it when Jenny bares her heart and soul in her song writing.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:47 pm
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RFC is what got me interested---after hearing that album I had to buy everything Jenny that I could find.

I like the fact that she has become more confident with her vocals and on stage.

Maybe TEOAT and MA are the peak-----but the stuff that has followed is strong.
UTB is a great record-----the fact that some of it is derivative or tongue-in-check doesnít devalue it for me------I still enjoy playing it all the way through----Jennyís singing and the bandís playing are stronger than anything that preceded it.

Maybe she hasnít scaled the artistic heights of TEOAT and MA------but she is branching out and doing interesting work that is compelling---to me, anyway.

And that live show in June was MESMERIZING (not just because I have the hots for her------it was a GREAT performance------one of the best Iíve seen---evah).
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:43 pm
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I think it falls into 2 camps: pre- solo and post solo fans. People who got in to Rk/JL through RFC usually prefer that stuff. Old RK fans usually prefer RK stuff. It's all about what attracted you to the music in the first place.
My feelings are similar to those of bergenergy. It was the honesty and rawness that attracted me to RK in the first place. Those things, TO ME, are missing from solo Jenny stuff and while I do enjoy it it just seems more "fictional" to me. I relate to having my heart broken, worrying about debt, the impression i will leave when i'm gone however, carpetbaggers, "jack killing mom" not so much. Now I agree that artists should grow and change but when I pop on a CD of a live show from 2003 and hear Jenny growling "maybe your right!" and singing "you'll be awake, you'll be alert, you'll be positive though it hurts" in an unpolished voice that seems on the verge of tears I can't help but feel something is gone forever. I miss the goose-bump inducing, gut wrenching music of those days.

~Nick
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:15 am
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nyeacknjny wrote:
I think it falls into 2 camps: pre- solo and post solo fans. People who got in to Rk/JL through RFC usually prefer that stuff. Old RK fans usually prefer RK stuff. It's all about what attracted you to the music in the first place.

~Nick


I agree with this, but at the same time I don't. I've been a RK fan since 2002 and a Jenny (acting) fan since the age of 4 or 5. So obviously that would put me in the category of pre-solo. However, I loooove Jennys solo work. Absolutely adore it, especially Acid Tongue. Now don't get me wrong, my favorite RK related release will always be the EP...with Takeoffs in an extremely close 2nd. That's the RK I found and the RK I fell in love with. And I know nyeacknjny and I have never agreed on UTB, but one of the reasons I love UTB is because it reminds me so much of the EP. It has the same vibe.

I agree Jenny has gone very Mother Goose and started being more of a storyteller but I don't feel she STOPPED baring her soul. There are plenty of UTB and solo songs that are very personal. You Are What You Love, Trying My Best..., Black Sand, Give A Little Love, The Big Guns, Silver Lining, Happy, Melt Your Heart, the list goes on and on. I honestly believe that peoples gripe is more with the genre change and poppier song structures.

My fave RK song is We'll Never Sleep (God Knows We'll Try), a song that is not often recognized but I love it because for me, it epitomizes that pre-Execution RK sound that I love. Its melancholy, but not depressing. Its simple,but not boring. And it just really gets me. This was the RK that I loved. Raw, lo fi, and emotional. HOWEVER, unlike other fans who are pre disposed to their early work, I love jennys solo stuff and later RK stuff. But for different reasons. For me to compare the two is like apples and oranges. It really just comes down to what I'm in the mood for. I dunno, I don't get what's so bad about the change. Its a nice change. Look on the bright side, at least she didnt dye her hair black, pierce her tongue and become a metal artist
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:10 am
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bello, i'm in a similar boat as you. i was already a fanatical RK fan before jenny put out RFC. honestly, my love for jenny has never waned.

there are some songs on UTB that i like more than other ones (dejalo i really don't like) and sure, it's my least favourite RK album, but i don't denounce it or conclude it as crap.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:42 pm
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nyeacknjny wrote:

My feelings are similar to those of bergenergy. It was the honesty and rawness that attracted me to RK in the first place. Those things, TO ME, are missing from solo Jenny stuff and while I do enjoy it it just seems more "fictional" to me. I relate to having my heart broken, worrying about debt, the impression i will leave when i'm gone however, carpetbaggers, "jack killing mom" not so much. Now I agree that artists should grow and change but when I pop on a CD of a live show from 2003 and hear Jenny growling "maybe your right!" and singing "you'll be awake, you'll be alert, you'll be positive though it hurts" in an unpolished voice that seems on the verge of tears I can't help but feel something is gone forever. I miss the goose-bump inducing, gut wrenching music of those days.

~Nick


I am totally in agreeance with you in most of this post. I don't relate to Jack Killed Mom or Carpetbaggers either, and TGTWCO and BS/D are my favourite songs ever (especially live) and I too miss it. But again, I could totally relate to RFC. The whole theme of the album was personal (IMO) and maybe it was more polished, but the sentiment was kind of still there. This is all just what I think though Wink
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:10 pm
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lemon wrote:
nyeacknjny wrote:

My feelings are similar to those of bergenergy. It was the honesty and rawness that attracted me to RK in the first place. Those things, TO ME, are missing from solo Jenny stuff and while I do enjoy it it just seems more "fictional" to me. I relate to having my heart broken, worrying about debt, the impression i will leave when i'm gone however, carpetbaggers, "jack killing mom" not so much. Now I agree that artists should grow and change but when I pop on a CD of a live show from 2003 and hear Jenny growling "maybe your right!" and singing "you'll be awake, you'll be alert, you'll be positive though it hurts" in an unpolished voice that seems on the verge of tears I can't help but feel something is gone forever. I miss the goose-bump inducing, gut wrenching music of those days.

~Nick


I am totally in agreeance with you in most of this post. I don't relate to Jack Killed Mom or Carpetbaggers either, and TGTWCO and BS/D are my favourite songs ever (especially live) and I too miss it. But again, I could totally relate to RFC. The whole theme of the album was personal (IMO) and maybe it was more polished, but the sentiment was kind of still there. This is all just what I think though Wink


I do enjoy RFC as well. I liked it more than UTB. You Are What You Love is amazing. It's that 1999-2004 stuff is what I really love the most.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:47 pm
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yikes, the pics at the top of this site make me very emotional

gonna pray for good times with this band Hello
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:27 pm
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This is exactly the situation with Conor Oberst...what's up with that? Both used to be more 'real' and emotional and now have settled into this countryish, character thing. It's disheartening.
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